parallels

After Charlie Kirk, some historians troubled by Civil War parallels

Professor Kevin Waite had just finished a seminar on the run-up to the American Civil War on Friday morning when a student cautiously raised her hand.

“Can I ask about the Charlie Kirk situation?” she said in Waite’s classroom at the University of Texas at Dallas.

The student, he said, wondered whether recent events carried any echoes of the past. Hyperbolic comparisons between modern political conflict and the horrific bloodshed of past centuries have previously been the stuff of doomsday prepper threads on Reddit, but this week’s shooting made it a mainstream topic of conversation.

While cautioning that the country is nowhere near as fractured as it was when the Civil War erupted, Waite and other scholars of the period say they do increasingly see parallels.

“Our current political moment is really resonating with the 1850s,” the historian said.

He and other scholars note similarities between the deployment of troops to American cities, widespread disillusionment with the Supreme Court, and spasms of political violence — especially from disaffected young men.

“What we call polarization, they called sectionalism, and in the 1850s there was a growing sense that the sections of the country were pulling apart,” said Matthew Pinsker of Dickinson University.

Even before Kirk’s alleged assassin was publicly identified as a 22-year-old who left antifascist messages, President Trump blamed the shooting on “radical left political violence.”

Conservative influencers amplified the rhetoric, with Trump ally Laura Loomer posting on X, “More people will be murdered if the Left isn’t crushed with the power of the state.”

Violence was far more organized and widespread in the late 1850s, historians caution. Congressmen regularly pulled knives and pistols on one another. Mobs brawled in the streets over the Fugitive Slave Law. Radical abolitionist John Brown and his sons hacked five men to death with swords.

But some aspects of modern politics are worryingly similar, scholars said.

“What almost scares me more than the violence itself is the reaction to it,” Waite said. “It was paranoia, the perception that this violence was unstoppable, that really sent the nation spiraling toward Civil War in 1860 and ’61.”

Top of mind for Waite was the paramilitary political movement known as the Wide Awakes, hundreds of thousands of of torch-toting, black-capped abolitionist youths who took to the street out of frustration with their Republican representatives.

“There was this perception that antislavery Republicans hadn’t been sufficiently aggressive,” Waite said. Wide Awakes, he said, believed “that it was the slaveholders that were really pushing their agenda much more forcefully, much more violently, and antislavery [politicians] couldn’t just sit down and take it anymore.”

Most Democratic politicians of the era were fighting to expand slavery to the Western territories, extend federal power to claw back people who’d escaped it, and enshrine slaveholders rights to travel freely with those they held in bondage.

The Wide Awakes struck terror in their hearts.

“For their political opponents, it was a really scary spectacle,” Waite said. “Any time a cotton gin burned down in the South, they pointed to the Wide Awakes and other more radical antislavery Northerners and said, ‘This is arson.’”

For Waite, the Wide Awakes can be compared to an antebellum antifa, while the paramilitaries of the South were more like modern Proud Boys.

“The South was highly militarized,” he said. “Every adult white man was part of a local militia. It was like a social club, so it was easy to take these local militias and turn them into anti-abolitionist defense units.”

Still, incursions by abolitionists into the South were rare. Incursions by slave powers into the North were common, and routinely enforced by armed soldiers.

Legal scholars have already noted striking similarities between Trump’s use of the military to aid his mass deportation effort. The Trump administration has leaned on constitutional maneuvers used to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act — a divisive law that empowered slave catchers from the South to make arrests in Northern states — in legal arguments to justify the use of troops in immigration enforcement.

“I argue it was the fugitive crisis, more than the territorial crisis, that drove the coming of the Civil War,” Pinsker said. “The resistance in the North essentially made the Fugitive Slave Law dead-letter. They broke the enforcement of that law through legal, political and sometimes protest resistance.”

Many Northern states had passed “personal liberty laws” to prevent Black people from being snatched off the streets and returned to slavery in the South — a move Waite and others compare to sanctuary laws across the country today.

“The attempt to uphold these personal liberty laws and simultaneously the government’s attempts to take these Black fugitives led to violence, and to perceptions that the so-called slave-power was the aggressor,” Waite said.

By the late 1850s, Northerners were equally fed up with the Supreme Court, which under Chief Justice Roger B. Taney was seen as a rubber stamp for slaveholders’ goals.

“The Supreme Court in the 1850s was dominated by Southerners, mostly Southern Democrats, and they were pro-slavery,” said Michael J. Birkner of Gettysburg University. “I think the Dred Scott case and the court being on one side is absolutely a parallel with today.”

The Dred Scott decision, which ruled Black people ineligible for American citizenship, is widely taught in schools.

But far fewer Americans know about the Lemmon case, a New York legal battle that could have effectively legalized slavery in all 50 states had the Taney court heard it before the war broke out in 1861.

“Slaveholders were eager to get that case before Taney, because that would have nationalized slavery,” Waite said.

Despite the similarities, scholars say that there is nothing inevitable about armed conflict, and that the imperative now is to bring the political temperature down.

“Donald Trump has not been offering that message with the clarity it needs,” Pinsker said. “He says he’s a big fan of Lincoln, but now is the moment for him to remember what Lincoln stood for.”

When it comes to parallels with America’s deadliest conflict, “there’s only one lesson,” the historian said.

“We do not want another civil war,” Pinsker said. “That’s the only message that matters.”

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Tony Gilroy on ‘Andor’ Emmy nominations, ‘spooky’ real-life parallels

“Andor” has been the “seminal creative experience” of Tony Gilroy’s life.

The filmmaker spent over five years steeped in the world of the “Star Wars” prequel series, which follows resistance fighter Cassian Andor (portrayed by Diego Luna) during the nascent days of the Rebellion. On Tuesday, “Andor” earned 14 Emmy nominations for its second and final season, including in the marquee race for drama series.

“It’s hard to imagine that I’ll ever be as deeply invested with as much and so submerged with so many people in such a huge endeavor,” Gilroy said via Zoom after the nominations announcement. “It’s a life experience as much as anything else. Everybody on this show really came away with a deeper sense of community and affection than they went in with.”

In addition to drama series, “Andor” was nominated for its directing, writing, cinematography, production design, costume, editing, score, original music, sound editing, sound mixing and special effects. Performances by Forest Whitaker (guest actor) and Alan Tudyk (character voice-over) were also recognized.

A grounded, political spy thriller, “Andor” is set during the five years leading up to the events of “Rogue One: A Star Wars story,” the 2016 film on which Gilroy is credited as one of the writers. The series has been hailed by critics and audiences since its 2022 debut, captivating both longtime “Star Wars” fans as well as those who don’t know an Ewok from a Wookiee.

a pilot and a droid

Cassian Andor (Diego Luna) and K-2SO (Alan Tudyk) in “Andor.”

(Lucasfilm Ltd)

The show’s second season, which unfolds over the span of four years, provided key glimpses into the Galactic Empire’s operations as well as the origins of the Rebel Alliance. And while the show is inspired by revolutions past, Gilroy admits it has been “spooky” to see current events parallel moments from the show.

In an interview with The Times, Gilroy discussed “Andor’s” nominations, real-life parallels and more. The conversation edited for length and clarity.

Congratulations on the 14 nominations! How are you feeling?

I’m trying to find a word that everybody you’re calling doesn’t use. I feel affirmed. It’s very exciting, obviously.

Where were you and what were you doing when you heard the news?

I waited and I took a ride and took a shower and got out and saw my phone was hot. I waited to see if my phone was hot.

Is there an “Andor” group chat where you all can chat in a thread together?

No. Well, maybe there is and I’m not on it. It’s more text mania. Then you have to figure out who’s on WhatsApp, who’s on this, who’s on that. Everybody’s on different s—. It’s actually really f— complicated, to be honest. Now I’ve got emails to answer, WhatsApps to answer.

What has it been like for you to be on this ride with this show as real-life events start to parallel what happened on the show? It feels like we’re living through so much of it now.

It’s been spooky. We had to do a very interesting thing, I think, and figure out how to sell the show while this was all happening without us getting confused, or the world getting confused, or anything else. So I’m really proud. We went all around the world and really sold it really hard. It’s hard to get a large audience to watch “Star Wars” — it’s strange, but it’s really difficult. Along the way I think we managed through the relevancy and the politics of it as successfully as we could. I think now things are a little bit looser. We’re a little bit more free with how we want to speak now so that’s a little bit liberating.

How hard is it to hold some of that in while you’re trying to appeal to an audience?

There wasn’t anything really cynical about it. Everything we said was legit. The historical model is truly what we were doing, and we’re not espousing an ideology in the show or anything like that. But we were also quite taken aback as things went along, at the amount of things that started rhyming with what was going on. Watching Sen. [Alex] Padilla get [handcuffed] while we’re watching the Ghorman senate — there’s things we did not expect to see lining up. It’s really tough and it should be obvious what people think about it.

One of the show’s nominations was writing for Episode 9.

Dan Gilroy, nominated!

How does it feel to be able to share this moment with your brother?

All three Gilroy brothers were nominated today! It’s very pleasing to see that. There’s so many things on here that really, really, really, make me smile. It’s really great that [production designer] Luke [Hull] and [costume designer] Michael Wilkinson [were nominated]. All the technical things that came in for us today were really satisfying. All these awards are community property no matter how people talk about it. You know how many people it takes to stand behind every one of these episodes. They’re just epic, the amount of people that are involved.

As you’re picking these individual episodes, how did Episode 9 stand out? What made it special for you?

We were really torn about what to [submit]. We had three candidates that we really were really interested in. In the end, people felt — direction wise — that the Ghorman massacre, Episode 8, was such a powerhouse. It’s such a strong flavor and so memorable that we could not have that beat for direction. And we also felt that [Episode] 9, it’s just so sophisticated. The spy writing and the sleekness of the politics and the sleekness of the storytelling in there and the scale of the issues for the characters that came up. That was always the favorite for script.

Since you mention Ghorman, what was memorable about working on that episode for you?

It’s always an experiment to see if you’re going to get the power out of things that you think you’re going to get. [So,] to watch that expand beyond where we thought it was going to be, and to have it affect us, the people making it, more than we expected. To have the extras walk off the set on the final day of shooting, when they were finally released, all the people in that square after months and they went off singing the Ghorman national anthem on their own on the way out of Pinewood [Studios]. I’m very proud of it.

That anthem is also nominated.

That’s really all I care about, Tracy. I’ve written a national anthem and it’s been nominated for an Emmy. [Laughs.]

two Stormtroopers and two uniformed officers

Dedra Meero (Denise Gough) and Grymish (Kurt Egyiawan) in “Andor.”

(Lucasfilm Ltd)

Your time with “Star Wars” is pretty much wrapped up. What has it been like for you, being steeped in this world for so long?

“Rogue [One]” aside, just being on this show the last five and a half, six years, this is the seminal creative experience, I’m imagining, of my life. It’s hard to imagine that I’ll ever be as deeply invested with as much and so submerged with so many people in such a huge endeavor. I can’t imagine that will ever happen again. It’s a life experience as much as anything else. Everybody on this show really came away with a deeper sense of community and affection than they went in with. To make a great show, and we’re really proud of it, and to come away feeling the way that we feel about each other and what everybody did, I’m as proud of that as anything.

How are you going to celebrate?

I’m going to roll these calls and I’m going to go back to prepping the movie that I’m supposed to start shooting. I’ve got homework to do. I’m going to try and get an hour or two of work done before I go out for dinner with my wife. But I’ll have an extra cherry in my old fashioned tonight.

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